Project Vega has been canceled

I am very, very sorry to have to say that I am canceling Project Vega.

The bottom line is this: In my search to find a publisher, I have discovered that it is going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible to find one willing to team up with us. From what I’ve read, I would basically have to a nearly complete game and/or have an established game company to have any hope of landing a publishing deal – in other words, to get funding from a publisher, I would have to be in a position in which I don’t need their funding. At the very least, I would have to have something that looks much, much better than what we have right now.

So what’s to stop me from just finishing this up and self-publishing it over Steam? Unfortunately, I can only do so much. I can only program, do the game design, and make crappy levels. I can’t model, animate, texture, make HUD graphics, write music, create sound effects, etc., all of which are absolutely critical to making a quality game. Unfortunately, getting outside help has proven time and time again that it simply will not work. People simply have other priorities (work, school, social lives, etc.) and cannot devote the time necessary to a project of this magnitude. Either I’m the worst manager in the world, or this model is simply doomed to failure. Maybe both.

I knew this would be tough from the beginning. But, I thought that any obstacles could be overcome with hard work and passion. I was wrong.

So, it is with a heavy heart that I am canceling this project. I’d like to thank all of the fans of this project – it’s good to know that there are others out there who are as sick and tired of modern shooters as I am. I’d also like to thank everyone who’s been a part of this project over the past two years. Without your support, there’s no way I could have gotten this far. Finally, I’d like to give a big thanks to Mechadon for designing and setting up the blog, and to WastedYouth for being there in the very beginning to help get the initial technology off the ground.

It’s been a pleasure knowing all of you, and I wish you all the very best of luck – I certainly wish you more luck than I’ve had. Take care, everyone.

—  Brad Carney

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116 Responses to Project Vega has been canceled

  1. Slyor64 says:

    Fuck fuck fuck fuck!
    A soon as I read the title, a part of me died.
    I was really looking forward to this game….

    But don’t you dare delete the Magnus engine. Make it freeware.

  2. SoulPriestess says:

    This isn’t good, because I actually was looking forward to a game that was not a “cut of the mill” so to speak. It’s rather disappointing that innovation, talent, and creativity cannot easily thrive in a world of corporate domination.

  3. Some guy says:

    Every great disappointment of this being canceled… Go ahead and give skullrant power in ST forums there now that it’s down HAHA!

  4. CafeExpress says:


    Listen, it takes years to build an empire, sure Vega may not look like something to day, but if you keep working at it one day it could be, as lame as this sounds: Rome was not built in a day, and neither can Vega. Sure you may not have the resources now or have the work power you would like, but part of being successful is learning to take what you do have and market it, and if people like what your marketing to them they’ll go “Hey, maybe I can help this project, it looks cool”.

    Your only thinking about the short term goals, you haven’t even GIVEN a publisher a chance yet, who knows maybe one will go “Hey, there is some real potential here, let’s give this guy a chance.” do the very best you can, you never know what they may say until you try, you must try. To quote Gandhi: “You may never know what results come of your action, but if you do nothing there will be no result”

    Do not just base your decision on what you have read, just because there is lots of companies that will only publish a near finished product does not mean that they are all like that, give it a shot, you put so much hard work into Vega to go back on it now, you owe it to yourself.

    To quote Gandhi again: “Be the change you want to see in the world”, you want to change FPS? Then be part of that change.

    I know you can do it Bradley, believe in yourself. Maybe you won’t get Vega done as soon as you want it to, but you will do it if you try.

  5. Carn says:

    I am known as Carn the god, I rape and rape until I can’t rape no more!

  6. Wartorn says:

    Welp. It was a good run.

  7. CafeExpress says:

    Guys, don’t give up now, you guys should be encouraging Carnevil to continue. Nothing is impossible guys, sure there’s obstacles in the road, but we can all help in one way or another.

    You are all forgetting the old saying “We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible.”, which if my memory severs me correctly was said by none other than Vince Lombardi.

  8. Ah geez, this is beyond saddening news to me :( . And it seems to have come right out of the blue! It looked as though you were well on your way to finding a publisher. But I guess instead of being where the good stuff was supposed to start…it was the brick wall :(

    I knew it was going to be difficult to find a publisher just because of the way the industry works these days, but I didn’t think it would be nigh impossible. I thought that with all of the buzz and hype people get over some indie game developers games these days that maybe there would be enough of a niche out there for new game developers to get into and find willing publishers. But I guess not. I guess the industry and the rest of the game playing world isn’t interested in anything but whatever the fat cat game dev companies shit out. To tell you the truth, at this moment, I’m seriously questioning whether or not I still want to get into game development as a career. Honestly, the last thing I wanted to do was go work for some souless massive game development company where most, if not all, of any creativity that you get to wield is suppressed by what the higher-ups want. I was looking at Vega as my opportunity to possibly escape that and work in a truly creative environment where people actually care what I have to say and genuinely listen to my ideas. Goddamn none of this shit actually works out :(

    Well man, I’m really sorry that you worked your ass off only to have this happen. It was really great being able to talk and work with you and everyone else. The project was full of potential and talented people and if it weren’t for the extenuating circumstances, I think we could have done very well. And I have to apologize for not being around as much as I would have liked, especially the past few weeks. I was kinda looking forward to you finding a publisher so I could quit this job and work for you instead, heh :S . But that’s the way my luck seems to work. I hope you stick around in one form or another. And really, you have a great base and engine to work from, so maybe you can continue the engine portion as a hobby? It would be a shame for such great work to go to waste.

    If you ever start up another project of some sort in the future, I’m always interested. And if you just want to talk or have a small conversation, I’m usually always reachable by email or PM ;)

  9. Carnevil says:

    That all sounds great in theory, but the reality of the situation is that I can’t keep working on it – I’ve done all I can! Unless I take up modeling, animating, etc., there’s nothing more that I can do. My only hope is to find one or two artists who would actually dedicate themselves to this project, and I really have no idea how to find those people.

  10. CafeExpress says:

    Well Carn, if that’s the only thing holding the project back, continue it the best you can until you find someone that can, remember nothing is impossible, you just have to think about it. Don’t give up, take a break, go out and search in the world for someone who does art and maybe say to them “Hey, I got this cool thing…”, who knows maybe something good will come of it.

    Personally, I think you should just take a break before you burn yourself out.

  11. Carnevil says:

    I don’t know. Maybe I’m being too hasty. Maybe I’ve been a blissful ignoramus and I’ve just wasted the best years of my life on a project that was doomed to fail from the beginning. I know this, though: It’s been incredibly frustrating relying on others. Though I know it’s not always their fault, they’re never able to come through for the project. It was like that on Skulltag, it’s been like that with Vega, and I’ve seen it happen on countless other projects as well. So, the prospect of entrusting the future of this project to someone I don’t even know as of yet (haven’t gone out there and found this person, have I?) isn’t really something I’m warming up to.

    For fun, here’s the thread that started all of this:

  12. CafeExpress says:

    On that site, jtagge75 did say:

    “Have you even tried posting a help wanted ad here for some modellers? Given the progress you have made you ought to be able to find some people to work for free or some future profits.”

    Have you tried that? There is a chance that someone will like it, hell the people on here now like it and want to help you, maybe someone outside our community will?

  13. CafeExpress says:

    Oh one other thing, I saw you made a post about self publishing:

    Yes, DO IT! If you can publish it yourself that’s great. You could make a way for people to buy it right off your site and download it, it can work.

    You may not know this about me, but I too am a programmer. I have made money off the stuff I programmed BECAUSE I self published, it works. If people like your work, they will be willing to buy it over the internet, as someone who has done this before: It works.

  14. I don’t think you wasted your time, even if the project was doomed from the get-go. That seems to be a pretty pessimistic view on it, though I can’t blame ya. You can never see these things coming from the beginning I honestly think that, if anything, you should take this as a learning experience. Your are an extremely talented person, don’t let this turn of events get you down.

    I just skimmed through that thread and there seems to be some really good advice in there. If your still interested at all in the game design industry, the very least you could do is use the demo as a piece for a portfolio while in search for a new job as suggested (so hey, no pizza delivery!). I know you aren’t very trusting of getting more people on board that you haven’t met before considering how bleak the prospect of having to re-recruit artists every few months would be because of contributor drop-out. Honestly, I wouldn’t really care to do that myself either. If it weren’t for circumstances at home, I could make myself way more available to help you out. But yea, that’s the problem; no publisher -> no money to keep people around -> no work gets done :( . And I’m sorry to say, I can’t really think of a better way to get more people recruited and to keep them on the team through the development cycle. But if you are able to get something together and keep people on the team without funding, then I think self-publishing would definitely be an option at this point.

    Yipes…well I gotta run. I’ll come back and comment more when I can.

  15. WhiteRabbit says:

    RIP project Vega :(

  16. Carnevil says:

    @CafeExpress: Sure, but with what graphics? It’s not exactly legal to release anything with the textures we’re currently using.

    @Mechadon: Yeah, but I was going to be able to get a job without having gone through all of this. I’ve already worked in the industry.

  17. CafeExpress says:

    Oops, I should have clarified my post a bit more, that was me bad :)

    I mean, in the end if you ever get it to the point of publishing, self publish. But in the mean time you should try posting a help wanted ad on that site, it wouldn’t hurt to try. Be optimistic about it all. and the like (Because I know you are reading this): No, he shouldn’t GPL it, he should do what he wants to do with it, stop thinking about yourselves and start being more supportive to Carnevil’s cause AND do something about it instead of complaining about the source. You have no clue how hard it is to do this kind of thing. Be a little more optimistic and supportive, it’s hard work he’s doing.

  18. Catman says:

    Carn. You even told me that THIS was your life. What’s the point in cancelling it just because of what a few people said? You’re simply giving up because of the chance of getting volunteers to do the graphics/models/sounds/music ? Come on! Just because you didn’t get a publisher deal DOESN’T mean you have to cancel it!

    For as long as I’ve known you, you haven’t let a bunch of naysayers force you into cancelling something you’ve wanted to do this badly. You even have the coding done and squared away, why should you have spent your time on this, just to throw it away because you have to wait? That’s the gaming industry for you, THE CODING IS ALWAYS THE FIRST THING TO BE DONE. Personally, I think that having to coding done and waiting is bothering you, because you haven’t had such first hand experience with the game industry and how it functions before.

    So, this is my suggestion. Don’t be so quick to give up, and relax while you can. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither are any games.

  19. CafeExpress says:

    So? Have you tried? Don’t give up because someone says so. If people here like Vega without playing it and only seeing a Demo video, then what are the chances that other people will too?

    I once thought about game programming myself, I found out how many people would like playing a Castle Vania style game (Really great concept I had), when I gathered statistics (Yeah yeah yeah, stats prove nothing I know) based on a survey I had given out, I had 4000 of them returned to me with the result saying that yeah they would buy something even if it wasn’t the best graphics ever or if it wasn’t a big name. You say you can release Vega for 10$ or so? 4000 * 10 = $40,000, that’s a pretty damn good start.

    Spend a little money on a Molder, or do what everyone on that Forum suggested to you: Ask for help. I know you hate trusting people, but that’s the reason WHY companies exist: They are a group of people that have to trust each other. Stranger things have happened Carnevil, and you will never no until you try.

  20. CafeExpress says:

    @Catman: I’m glad I’m not the only one who uses that Rome saying. :-D

  21. I saw a post about this game on, so it’s quite odd to see a cancellation post with the exact same date… ah well, join the club. I’ve seen this happening a lot in the HL modding scene, I’ve worked on some mods that failed too. It felt bad back then, but in hindsight it’s been a very educative time. Helped me a lot in becoming a game programmer. :)

    Basically, it’s pretty hard to find reliable, skilled people who want to work on your project for free. And you can’t blame them for that. One of the reasons why you need funding. If you really want to see a project come to life, you may have to fund it yourself. Braid was done by one programmer, and at some point he hired an artist to take care of the visuals.

    Another option would be to play on your strong points (which, for a programmer, would not be a content-heavy project like this). A game like AudioSurf doesn’t require a lot of modeling and texture-work, but it’s pretty programming intensive. A game like Tron 2.0 still does require some texture work and modeling, but it’s a less expensive style than most other shooters. What I’m trying to say is this: art is your weak point, so be smart about it. Don’t try to build games that heavily rely on art unless you’re able to hire some artists.

    As for funding, look at it from the other side: you’ve got money and some random guy is asking you to fund his game project. All good and well, he’s putting in a lot of work, but is that investment going to pay back? Is there a market for his game? Can he be relied on, or will he bail out at some point? And will the art really be that crappy (you’ll be surprised at how many people only look at the visuals – we programmers tend to ignore placeholder art; oh, that’ll be replaced later)? Try to understand the process, so you can make informed decisions early on, rather than jumping into yet another project that’s doomed to remain unfunded. Planning is important – and sadly very hard to do without prior experience.

    Either way, I’m sure you’ll have learned a lot of things that will be helpful in the future. Keep it up!

  22. Slyor64 says:

    Listen here Carn.
    You can’t do this. Maybe the twelve year old noobs who play Halo 3 all day may not like the game, but the 30 year old veterans will.

    You spent two years on this project. I don’t want to see this go to waste. You worked hard for this and by golly you have to finish it. This game could make a difference.. so don’t give up! Finding people to work on the game may be hard, but that doesn’t mean you have to quit.
    I made a facebook page for this game. I started a forum topic on IGN just for this game. There is no way this game is going to waste.
    Remember my first post? It sucks. The engine shouldn’t be freeware. You finish this game. For all the FPS fans who stuck with you, Skulltag and Doom and other games for all these years.

    Finish this fucking awesome game. Don’t do it for us, but for yourself. Don’t give up.

  23. Anth-Sama says:

    NOOOOO! u can stop this, that makes no sense at all! u start up some master piece then everyone wants to play and see and u stop? thats not right, u are a truly awesome person with awesome skill, this skill can make this game… the best thing ever! listen to the cries of the people!! DONT STOP VEGA!!!!!!

  24. boko says:

    hmm why not just continue just privately? I mean leaving what you created is just what happened to skulltag. keep goin.. someones bound to see it sooner or later.

  25. CafeExpress says:

    @Boko: That would defeat purpose of this getting published, Boko.

  26. Cronyne says:

    All I can say is, CONTINUE. If you are not continuing, make something better. But pleasure, continue either way, You just, can’t stop now.

  27. WhiteRabbit says:

    Carn, a public beta for your game hasn’t even been released yet and you already have a community beginning to follow it. It is going to be hard to move forward from this point, but it doesn’t seem like Last Bastion has to suffer this fate. You’re really onto something with it and some of those people at are so used to the modern FPS market that they’re not used to the idea of an FPS focusing on gameplay and speed over realism. Canceling this in frustration at this point is the absolute worst thing that could happen. I’m sure that if this is continued and Last Bastion reaches a state closer to completion, publishers will definitely begin to show more interest.

  28. Whoo says:

    Well, I know your life is busy, but I’d hate to see you throw all of this work away. You spent over a year making this game, and you have motivated developers behind you. Not only that, you also have a community. If you still cannot finish this, then I think the best thing to do in order to not disappoint all the followers would be to pass on the game rights to one of the developers who was working on Vega.

  29. caca says:

    Ahi quedo tu wea de project VERGA! :lol:

  30. Driedman says:

    I’m going forum to forum to forum to look for some people for you Carn.

  31. Hidon says:

    I personally think it would be a waste to cancel the project. If it takes 3, or 4 years, so be it, if you need time to make it better, than that is what needs to be done. It’s only been 2 years, and for most people starting out, it takes far longer than that to get a project in an even semi-playable state.

    Don’t let yourself give in.

  32. Slyor64 says:

    This is the facebook page I made.
    Join if you want Vega to continue!

  33. Right, I knew you had already worked in the industry before. I guess what I was getting at was that at the very very least, you can use this as part of your portfolio/resume/etc. Not so much that you were doing this to be able to break into the industry that you’ve already broken into. I mean, of course, that’s if you plan on doing anything like that (I certainly wouldn’t want to deliver pizza for a living, but that’s just me). I may not be an expert to anything relating to game design or the industry, but I do know that you are passionate about game design and your very skilled. Try not to let that go to waste!

    As far as this project and whether or not it will be viable to make a profit goes, I can’t say for certain from my limited knowledge if it could still work out or not. I’m just too ignorant of how certain aspects of the business work. Ideally it would be nice to see the project turn into more of a Skulltag-type thing where you work on it in your spare time and it’s free to the public. But that is not fair to you in the least, and I kinda doubt you want to go down the road again. Another idea would be to scale down the scope of the project considerably. Keep the core elements of gameplay but simplify and reduce the time it would take to create resources. I’m thinking keep it very Doom/Quake like; Doom-res textures, very simple models or even sprites, and a simplistic map format similar to Quake. If, somehow, the resources were easier and quicker to make (I used making it Quake/Doom-like as a possible example), that could potentially quell the problem contributors who don’t have the free time to stick around for a long haul. Or not…but it’s just an idea. If you were able to make a more finished game from that point, I think self-publishing wouldn’t be an issue. Pieter Witvoet seems to have some excellent advice as well, so I would certainly give his points some thoughts.

    Anyways, I just hate to see that after all that work you poured into this thing, it ended up like this :( . But like I said, use it as a learning experience and don’t let it get you down ;)

  34. Carnevil says:

    Guys, look. I really appreciate the outcry of support, but it’s over. Alright? Over! If something is a bad decision going forward, the amount of time/money/work that’s gone into it up until that point is *irrelevant*. If I spend $1,000,000 to figure out if building a bridge is a bad idea, and I find out that it indeed *is* a bad idea… do I build it anyway because I spent that $1m? No! It’s still a bad idea!

    It’s the same here. If my outlook going forward looks absolutely dismal (HINT: It does), do I keep going because I put a bunch of work into it? The emotional answer is yes, but the logical answer is no. Look, if $20m was magically dropped into my lap so that I could circumvent publishers and get this game done, I would. I seriously believe that there is a market for this game. Hell, they just made an 8-bit Megaman game that was a huge success. An anti-FPS could no doubt be a breath of fresh air and hugely successful; however, publishers aren’t going to take that risk.

    I can’t find a publisher, and self-publishing has little to no hope of working (can’t find people, can’t pay them, can’t keep them interested, would take a billion years even if it worked, etc.). I can’t just “keep working on it”. There’s nothing for me to work on! I’ve done all I can do!

    I figured if I got an engine together and some temp resources, that would be enough. When I worked at Black Ops Entertainment, we found a publisher for the game I was working on with a hell of a lot less. Of course, they were an actual company with a track record – I’m just some dude. Unfortunately, that’s not the reality of the situation here.


  35. Catman says:


    There have been times when I look at things I work on, including all the negative criticisms and naysaying by others and consider dropping it then and there. But then, I think of how finishing it will help myself.

    You’re simply taking the word of a few people on and quite frankly, they are hardly a voice of reason for your decision. You know WHY some may be so quick to insist on your cancellation of the project? Jealousy. They simply can’t handle the fact that someone out there wants to pitch an idea, therefore they try to talk you out of it.

    You took their word on how “impossible” it would be to get a pitch presented for Last bastion, but did you try? Have you considered the possibility of what would happen if someone actually said “Yes.”? You seem so quick to throw away all the work you’ve done in the last 2 years, and that in itself makes me disappointed in you.

    Think of all the people that want to see this “bridge” of yours completed. You have almost 20 people on this page alone, and numerous others; Hell, even the two “interesting” people at Quakecon wanted to see this through!

    However, if you want to ignore all the people who have your back, then at least do it for yourself. Prove to yourself that you can pull off something of this magnitude, just to show that you can.

    The first step is always the hardest to take, but after that, the rest of the stairs are easy. So what if you stumble once or twice, you just get back up and keep climbing.

    I hope we see you at the top.

  36. Kristus says:

    I’m confused of where you’ve even looked for help with this project. The only places I’ve even seen it advertised is in the Classic Doom community. You don’t even have any ModDB profile for it. :s

  37. Spadger says:

    Oh well.

    At least you’ll have more time to work on Skulltag now.

  38. Guigui says:

    Well. I just watched the gameplay video on YouTube and I was impressed. I was like, just how could you throw this away, Carnevil? It’s a playable game from what I’ve seen, even with ripped textures and no sounds or animations.

    I get your point. You are only a programmer, and all you could do in the game, was already done. Now you have nothing more to do but find people to make sounds and graphics. And because of this you’re cancelling the project? I would suggest just putting it on hold for a bit until some good volunteers are found (and as said by other people, sometimes you’ll have to use some money out of your pocket). I am sure it would be worth the effort in the end. This game has a lot of potential. I also have no doubt that publishers would give it a chance once it’s near completion – that is, when you find people to do the art part. It isn’t that hard, trust me. Ask everywhere you can, and someone will like it and volunteer.

  39. CafeExpress says:

    @Catman: You know, I never realized it before you mentioned it, but your right those assholes over at Gamedev are jealous.

    Carn, don’t believe those guy anyways, I’ve been to gamedev over the years, they’re a shitty, jealous, and unhelpful community *Remembers his past trying to get good advice with C++ back in 03*.

    As I and the others keep telling you: At least try.

  40. Udderdude says:

    The “I’m just a programmer!” excuse isn’t a very good one. I taught myself to compose music and draw/color just so I’d be able to at least do some of my own resources on my own games/projects. If you really want to finish this project bad enough, you’ll expand your boundries. If you really wanted to, you’d find a way to make it work. But I guess you’ve already decided not to. :P

  41. Slyor64 says:

    I agree.

    Don’t listen to them at gamedev Brad. Wouldn’t it just suck if some other guy at gamedev announced a game similar to Project Vega and then released it? All because he wanted you to cancel your game so he could make one.
    They are just jealous. I am really dissapointed by the fact your quitting a game just because it takes something called time to find people to help with the game.
    Put Vega on hold until you can find more people to help. It takes years for this stuff to happen.
    ID Software is still looking for people to help with Doom 4. You should be looking for people too.
    And I really liked Skulltag too. LIKED.

  42. Ugly Head says:

    A Carnevil cry for attention? I’ve never seen one of these before.

  43. Carnevil says:

    @Kristus: Let’s say I was able to find a bunch of people to help. What’s to keep them motivated? What is there to keep them working when their initial enthusiasm wanes? Nothing! I’ll quote Pieter Witvoet earlier in this thread:

    “Basically, it’s pretty hard to find reliable, skilled people who want to work on your project for free. And you can’t blame them for that. One of the reasons why you need funding. If you really want to see a project come to life, you may have to fund it yourself. Braid was done by one programmer, and at some point he hired an artist to take care of the visuals.”

    He’s right on. The only way to keep people motivated is to pay them, and last time I checked, I don’t have hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars lying around. I might have a couple of shiny nickels, however.

  44. Carnevil says:

    And actually, on the whole has been quite helpful to me. I’ve asked questions over there on several occasions, and they’ve been very helpful. I really do think that people are being pretty objective about this. I don’t think you guys have a clue how conservative video game publishers are. They don’t want to minimize their risk as much as possible. They want you to either have a finished/nearly finished product, or have a proven track record before they’re willing to get on board – basically, something with a high chance of making them money. They don’t care about creative vision or coolness or anything like that – it’s all about the bottom line. And frankly, I don’t blame them for that.

  45. AlexMax says:

    “Unfortunately, getting outside help has proven time and time again that it simply will not work. People simply have other priorities (work, school, social lives, etc.) and cannot devote the time necessary to a project of this magnitude. Either I’m the worst manager in the world, or this model is simply doomed to failure. Maybe both.”

    The bustling indie game scene has shown that this model is not a failure. And you are not even the first developer to be lamenting about the lack of artists, the authors of the indie RTS A.I. War literally used graphics leftover from Tyrian (they were released under a suitable license) until their game got enough hype to be able to hire an artist. Dwarf Fortress literally uses ASCII for his graphics and he makes around 30k a year in *donations*.

    I don’t think you’re necessarily a bad manager either. You’ve just been working on an engine (not a game, an engine) for the last year with a specific end goal X in mind and when you feel like you can’t achieve it you are sad that all of your work is supposedly going to go to waste. It doesn’t have to. Who says that you have to make your dream game design the first go-round. Why not set your sights lower and try and come up with a less ambitious game (or more, but in a way that’s not particularly art-heavy) that uses the Vega engine that also caters to your strengths and glosses over your weaknesses. If you’re not artist enough to create something that looks like Quake 4 or even Quake 2, try a simplistic or retro look. At least give it a shot…think about it this way, you couldn’t do worse than leileilol.

    Failing that, you could at the very least release your engine’s source under a permissive license (BSD/GPL/etc.) and see if anyone else finds your engine useful. You never know…

    Good luck with your future endeavors, whatever they happen to be.

  46. CarpetolA says:

    Carnevil, how in the world can you throw something away like that just because the “game industry” doesn’t want to see anything unfinished? That’s atrocious. Sorry, but… no.

    I like what I’ve seen so far. I love old school Doom and Quake, and I’m almost 18 years old. Nothing, not even Fallout 3 or any other modern FPS-game out there is as good as Doom. Here’s a young guy who was supposed to “grow up with Halo” telling you to NOT give up on us who are interested in what you have worked on, so far. But if you cannot afford any future progress, than I am truly saddened for that to happen :(

    So I have an idea, which probably would be a stupid one, because I’m young and optimistic. And perhaps a few people have told you this already…

    Pass the ball over to the Doom community.

    Let the fans of Doom and the supporters of your work continue your project Vega. Come on, give it a shot! Almost every big Doom project has been released, with contributors adding up to like, at least 20 people per project! And damn, do they ever look good! So please, Carnevil, don’t let this bad boy get killed! Let it live through other people who want it to live, as a token of their respect towards you because you’ve started such a great project! ;)

  47. Kristus says:

    @Carney: Pardon my french. But that is such a load of crap. Time and time again that has been proven to be wrong. Every major mod that has ever been released show that it’s wrong.

  48. Eric says:


  49. Doomfiend says:

    O_O wat? your cancling it? really? thats a shame and this was one of the few FPS games I was really looking forward too… the traditional movement bob, quake 2 style maps. I was gonna take up some computer courses to help you out with “project vega”

    It may seem difficult to find some helpers but im sure if you looked hard enough, you would find some talented programers/artists/ music composers to aid you with project vega. Its a shame your giving this all up because you canot find a publisher. but tbh if I was in your shoes. I’d keep looking, because it takes time before you can establish goals, such as making a video game. in this case… project vega. To hell with all the modern bland realistic fps games, Project vega is the game for a true doomer (although like you quoted this has nothing to do with doom) but reguardless I am a quake fan and that is quake 2 material you have there ;)

  50. Carnevil says:

    @Kristus: I would bet that the overwhelming majority of mods either suck, are very small in scope, or are abandoned. Even Stronghold, which is probably one of, if not the biggest best Doom projects to date, has gone through all of the same shit this project has. When it comes to community projects, it’s: large, quality, done. Pick two.

    The fact that people are thinking it looks Quake-ish is just another indication that my vision for this game never got across, and the fact that people think it looks Quake 2-ish is yet another reason to flush this down the toilet and fire a couple of rockets in there after it.

  51. Slyor64 says:

    I can’t believe I’m hearing this from Carnevil.

    That just sad that he committed himself to this project and letting a few simple flaws destroy it.

    I am now going to delete Skulltag.
    See you guys on zdaemon!

  52. Carnevil says:

    I don’t know that I would characterize the inability to complete the project as a “simple flaw”, but do what you must.

  53. Doom_Guy143 says:

    Aw man, another good idea flushed down the toilet because the fps market doesn’t like retro stuff. It’s a shame, because i love skulltag and oldschool fast fpses. At last i was gonna rub something i the face of the COD noobs in my school but if it has to be this way, then sadly I’ll have to accept it. Hell to be honest I would have bought the damn demo for 10 bucks. Oh well, Shit happens.

  54. Guigui says:

    “Hell to be honest I would have bought the damn demo for 10 bucks”

    I would as well…

  55. CafeExpress says:

    Carnevil, it only looks like Quake 2 because your using Quake 2ish/UTish textures. A texture make over from proper artists would have done it.

    But like everyone on here keep saying: You have to try.

    Stop whining about it, seriously, I don’t want to anger you or anything but this is becoming quite childish, your not even willing to take a chance in something you believe in, actually that reminds me of a little quote from Styx:

    “So if I can, I’m gonna break from this prison
    Gonna get out and join in the fight
    Take a chance on what I believe in
    Win or lose, I know it’s right”

    Bust out of your prison of self loathing, get out there and fight for some team members, and take a chance.

    And hey, here’s another quote because I’m in a quote mood again

    “Take chances, make mistakes, get messy!”
    “Never say “never.”

    Those were said by none other than Ms. Frizzle (Hey, don’t knock the Bus!), and she’s damn right.

  56. Recurracy says:

    The cel-shaded weapons and perhaps the environment are UNIQUE (well, ‘cept for borderlands and some other games perhaps), probably 1 or 2 other game companies have tried to give their games a really cartoony look while keeping it a shooter. If you made something else totally unique, I would have bought this for 100 bucks sure. And it already was worth that money.

  57. Pingback: Hello Brick Wall | Mekworx

  58. Carnevil says:

    @CafeExpress: To suggest that I’m not willing to take a chance is completely ridiculous. I devoted two years working on this overtime every week unpaid, and even quit my previous job and went back to school all so I could learn how to start/run a business. Is that not taking a chance enough for you?

    And I *did* go out there and fight for some team members – they didn’t perform up to expectations, and finding new people isn’t going to change that. Take a look at what AlexMax and Pieter have said: these problems aren’t unique to me. They happen all the time. Even if I was able to find a few skilled, dedicated artists, we’re still looking at YEARS before this project is finished – years where I don’t get paid and have to continue to endure my ultra shitty lifestyle. And what if they quit? I’d have to find skilled, dedicated artists AGAIN, and their styles might not be consistent with the previous artists’ styles.

    Just saying “don’t give up” or “take a chance” doesn’t address the reality of the situation – what I’m trying to do is IMPOSSIBLE! Maybe someday when circumstances are different I’ll be able to pull this off, but for now… I’m sorry, but it’s simply impossible. And no one wishes that was not the case more than me.

  59. Guigui says:

    “Maybe someday when circumstances are different I’ll be able to pull this off”

    What I suggested. Put it on hold until you feel you have the condition to find good people to complete it. Waiting some time before looking at the project again is somewhat different than cancelling it.

  60. CafeExpress says:

    “Maybe someday when circumstances are different I’ll be able to pull this off”

    Well, as long as you are not going to completely dismiss the idea of your own FPS, then yeah I guess I can accept your decision.

    But what plans do you have now?

  61. Carnevil says:

    Get a job somewhere. I’ve pretty much been financially decimated by this project (I just spend upwards of $1,000 on trademarking, copyrighting, and domain name registering), which is part of why I can’t just continue it as-is. I need funding. I can’t handle being continuously broke.

    And let me be clear – this project is DEAD. I have no plans to continue it whatsoever. I rolled the dice, took a shot at glory and true happiness, and it failed. If it is ever revived (and that is very, very unlikely), it will likely be in a completely different form with completely different people. I ask that you guys don’t get your hopes up that I’m just going to decide to continue it after a few months. The only way this is continuing is with under dramatically new circumstances.

  62. CafeExpress says:

    As in, you winning the lottery/someone winning the lottery and sending you money kind of circumstances?

  63. Guigui says:

    Let’s all pray for someone who likes Vega to win the lottery. o/

  64. CafeExpress says:

    Hey if I did, I’d send Carnevil $80 200 (That’s CAD BTW, so that’s approx $75,000 which I would think would be enough to get Carnevil going).

    But yeah, I wouldn’t put all my eggs in one basket on that one. :(

  65. Carnevil says:

    I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but here’s a post of mine I made at Mechadon’s blog:

    “There was really nothing I could do to keep the project going. Believe me, if I thought there was any hope of keeping this going, I’d be all for it. This is pretty much all I’ve wanted to do since I was 8 years old. But, the fact of the matter is this:

    We have no hope of finding a publisher, which means our only option is to self-publish. Now, let’s say that I am able to find several skilled artists willing to work for free who stick with the project (ha!). Because they can’t work full time, and with how difficult it is to make something that looks good these days (modeling, animating, skinning, special effects, etc.), we’re looking at something like *three years* to complete something that could be remotely successful.

    Look, I’m almost 30 and living at home (there’s some more ammo for you, Zap). It’s not fair to my family to continue to be a burden for several more years, all to chase some dream which may or may not pan out. At some point, you have to get real, stop chasing dreams, and move on with your life. That scenario I painted is about the rosiest of rosy scenarios – a much more realistic scenario is that I recruit like crazy only to have people not do their work – or take so long that by the time everything gets done, some studio’s already copied our idea, or the technology/graphics look incredibly outdated by the time everything’s done. I don’t have enough money, nor could I possibly earn enough to pay people enough to incentive them to keep working and finish. I just don’t.

    I would obviously love to keep it going, but I just don’t see any possible way. I know it’s all very abrupt, but wake up calls tend to be. I always knew it’d be a longshot, but it was naive to think there even *was* a shot. When I read what everyone had to say on (keep in mind these are experienced people – one of them even helps indies find publishers, and he most of all thought we were doomed), it completely gelled with everything I learned in my experience with venture capitalists (people who fund startup companies for a living). In my naivete, I thought maybe that game publishers were a little more liberal than standard investors, when in reality, they’re even *more* conservative. A VC would settle for a prototype, whereas a game publisher wants far more than that – they want a completed game. I had no way of knowing that without going through the process first… or being psychic (which, sad to say, I am not).

    If you still think I’m quick to flush it all down the drain, then you’re entitled to your opinion, but that’s my side of it.”

  66. Keo says:

    Carn, I can’t FULLY understand what you’re going through (only saying this because I never developed an actual game before), but I can pretty much understand that this must be hard as shit. So? Why throw away your dreams simply because people (nobody’s ALWAYS right) at that website said this won’t work out? Even if one (or more) of them is an expert. You should complete Vega regardless.

    Don’t quit because you can’t find the cash, I would create a site to donate to you, or maybe someone else even(lots of people here are interested in Vega). Don’t quit because those guys told you it’s impossible, does anyone make great accomplishments when people say “Hey, this isn’t worth it, you’ll never make it.”? Don’t quit because you’re stressed about it, take a break once in a while.

    If you quit, weather it be now or forever, then I hope you at least live your life doing what you want to do, but don’t quit because the odds look or seem impossible. Pursue your dreams; Vulpeka: “Only idiots give up on dreams. You gotta keep going”. Remember, other people spent a lot of time working on this too more or less (dunno about more); like Mek for example. Whatever you do though, don’t give up on your dreams, at least let Vega have a shot. Maybe Vega won’t be your best project ever, maybe it will, you’ll never know untill you work past your obsticles and see for yourself.

  67. Kristus says:

    Well, Carney. Be my guest. Live in your bubble whith your unfinished game.

  68. Carnevil says:

    I will Kristus, but only because you said to. <3

    Oh, and I think you meant "with".

  69. Slyor64 says:

    Ok, fine whatever. He is obviously not going to continue the game by any means necessary.
    I’m done trying to convince to keep working on Vega.

    So heres what u do Carn: You worked hard on that engine, and maybe it would be best if you released that engine so we could make our own Vega levels, even though the models aren’t finished.

    Does that sound good?

  70. Carnevil says:

    Can’t do that. If the opportunity presents itself in the next several years, I’ll still try to get this made, and that will be a lot harder if a demo version is floating around out there.

  71. CafeExpress says:

    The Demo version wouldn’t make a bit of difference if you released it. In a few years time DX9 won’t even be that widely used as Windows 8 will be out by then and anyone using that won’t be ever taken seriously, you could use DX9 now as there’s still a market for it, but in a few years? Yeah, you’d have to start over as even now, DX10/11 has problems rendering DX9 properly, and that’s even more apparent on every new version of Windows.

    Plus your done with Vega, what’s a Demo version really going to do? It’s not like we can edit said demo.

  72. CafeExpress says:

    But, can I ask one thing?

    I really liked your Version of the Skulltag community that you had going for about 2 weeks, would you reconsider closing the forum? I’m sure I am not the only person who would like to post on the .Com forums.

  73. Guigui says:

    “If the opportunity presents itself in the next several years, I’ll still try to get this made” yay.

    I agree with CafeExpress, forums FTW.

  74. RoS King says:

    Carn, get at me. i’d like to talk to you about something private.


    aim; RoS K1ng

  75. Devlin says:

    WTF no way…

    I was looking forward to this ;_;

  76. Vernunft says:

    “It’s rather disappointing that innovation, talent, and creativity cannot easily thrive in a world of corporate domination.”

    Wow you’re dumb.

  77. CafeExpress says:

    “The wheels are turning… maybe there’s a way to save this after all…”

    Please, do tell!

  78. Ioan says:

    If you say the project is *DEAD*, then what about giving the maps to the people who made them (Mechadon I assume) and let them do what they want to them (such as converting them to Quake or Half Life so all the work is not lost)?

    I like Quake and Quake 2, and I don’t see what’s your problem with them. I like their gritty atmosphere more than being shiny, and (until I also figured out Vega was going to be an _arcade_ game) I was also hoping it will be a Quake-clone with *better gameplay* (the Quakes looked good but were kinda boring, unlike Doom. Vega could have fixed the boring aspect, if it weren’t for those sliding turrets and sliding giant muscle man silhouettes. But I assume they were placeholders).

    If you prefer having a pragmatic job in order to move on from your parents’ house, go for it. Nothing’s better than freedom and money, you get to know new people and so on. If I also had the chance to meet new people every day and do interesting stuff, I would have abandoned the internet scene long ago… College exams are so boring, that’s why I’m on the net 16/24.


  79. CafeExpress says:

    Carnevil on Twitter: “I just played a couple of new games that SUCK! Am I the only person who knows how to make a good game? Maybe I have to save Vega after all.”

    Announce it soon! Your suspense is killing me Carnevil, I really want to see this go further.

  80. Janitor says:

    Hey, I liked the look of this. Don’t let the haters getcha down!

  81. Open Source says:

    You could always release this as an open source game and have a community build the game. Just think of all the other games that would spawn from this.

  82. Me. says:

    So this is still alive then?



    • Do NOT take that comment above in all caps with my name as “don mutha fuckin’ west” as me personally saying that. It is not me that typed that shit. It was one of my stupid friends.

  84. CafeExpress says:

    Oh no, the might Capslock user has come to spam us. WHATEVER SHALL WE DO?

    Your comparing Carnevil to Carmack? Carmack sucks, he is a horrible programmer and is the main reason why iD sucks so much these days.

    And Vega was Original, it was going to be a Cel-Shaded shooter. Way to fail at attacking Vega, moron. Not only that, Carnevil didn’t only make a source port, he made PROFESSIONAL video games and a PROFESSIONAL company, BEFORE Skulltag.

    Tell me, do you always go to places and start flapping your mouth about something you barely know anything about? Seeing as you claim that Vega is “Gay Shit” instead of actually pointing out real flaws, I’m going to guess that you are do and that you are always this bad at it too.

    And one last thing: Try moving your hand just a little closer to that caps lock key, that way next time you won’t sound like a whaling idiot.

  85. Slyor64 says:

    @ Caps lock user (Post 87)

    Ok, let’s see you make a good zdoom port. Go program a port for doom and watch it become the best online experience anyone will ever have with doom, all because Skulltag sucks.

    Also, lets see you to try living your dream of doing something original that you have always wanted to do, then having to quit because you can’t finish it. Then have some Caps locked Spammer rub it in your face how much you suck ass.

    Fuck you asshole. At least Carnevil tried to make a game with actual gameplay and not just flashy visuals and over the top HD Cutscenes.

    So tell me when you finish the doom port, so I can say it sucks them spam in it, hack it and destroy the reputation you worked so hard for.
    Go kill yourself. Fuck you.

    Dis I mention that you are a cocksucking faggot? No I didn’t.
    Cocksucking faggot. Fuck you.

  86. Saican says:

    You know, I followed links around until I got here from WIP. I dont know if this is the same game I thought it was on WIP, but nevertheless, it isn’t cool to see people arguing over fact that a game got canceled. I taught myself how to make Doom maps. I know I’m not Carmack. But I push my own boundaries to see what I can make GZDoom do. Just seeing this makes me happy that there are independent designers out there. Keep it up. And the community really needs to back these projects. If everyone would just work together……

  87. Guigui says:

    lol @ ragecaps

    you do realize that it just makes people laugh hard at how retarded you are.

  88. Brad Carney says:

    @Saican: WIP? What’s that? The only WIP I know is that site “Wads in progress”, and I doubt there’s any mention of that here.

    Anyway, for those of you who haven’t heard, I’m trying to get some things together so that this project can continue and be successful. No promises, but I’m working on getting to a point at which we can move forward. We’ve got too good of a thing going here to completely let it go to waste.

  89. KillemallCFH says:

    “lol @ ragecaps

    you do realize that it just makes people laugh hard at how retarded you are.”

    Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s the point. You guys really need to learn how to smell a troll, and, you know, not respond to him.

    Anyways, sad to see Vega get canceled. Hopefully you can continue the project. Wish I had some artistic ability and could lend you some aid, but alas, I do not.

  90. Saican says:

    Yeah Wads In Progress. Followed links from Total Chaos off of WIP to Skulltag which said the thread was closed because the game was canceled and lo and behold I ended up here from Skulltag. So idk if I’m looking at the same game. But I like the look of this and am in full support of its being finished!

  91. Eric says:

    “Anyway, for those of you who haven’t heard, I’m trying to get some things together so that this project can continue and be successful. No promises, but I’m working on getting to a point at which we can move forward. We’ve got too good of a thing going here to completely let it go to waste.”

    That’s the spirit, Carn! I knew you wouldn’t give up on this after dedicating two years of your life to it.

  92. lolpartyvandesudesu says:

    sup /v/

  93. Zaranell says:

    One of the guys at gamedevs mentioned that basically no one is interested in an old-school style FPS. As pointed out over at, however, a ton of people still play the first 3 Quakes. Even Quake Live, which is basically just Quake 3 in a browser, has a good chunk of players. To say that none of them would want to play a game like Vega/Last Bastion is ridiculous.

    Canceling this game is ludicrous. Putting it on hold, for a while, is not. Just because you hit one road block doesn’t mean you have to forget about it. You just need to wait until you find a way around it.

    In short, I think you’re giving up too easily. I can understand how you must feel when the odds are stacked against you like this, but it’s not like you can’t come back to this game later when you have more resources, be they time, money, or people.

  94. CafeExpress says:

    “I just spent over FIVE hours on the phone with Bobby Prince! Great guy! I’m so looking forward to working with him! Time to uncancel LB yet?”

    Oh really? This is getting too good. :)

  95. Slyor64 says:

    “I just spent over FIVE hours on the phone with Bobby Prince! Great guy! I’m so looking forward to working with him! Time to uncancel LB yet?”

    Bobby prince? THE Bobby Prince? The guy who did music for Wolf3D and Doom?
    Carnevil, you officially kick so much ass for getting Bobby Prince. The game will have an epic soundtrack.

  96. Sooo, is this uncanceled or what?

  97. Carnevil says:

    I think that if I can find another modeler, we’ll be all set!

  98. CafeExpress says:

    Will this mean you will reopen the forums?

    I’m glad you keep trying Carn and didn’t give up, I’m glad this is heading in a good direction now. Good luck!

  99. Guigui says:

    Awesome! Looking forward to this game’s future! :)

  100. Slyor64 says:

    I knew this project would continue.

  101. Catman says:

    Heh. Hopefully there’ll be another modeler for soon… /me coughs

  102. CafeExpress says:

    “Writing up the budget for our first sellable milestone. This is going to be expensive out of pocket :(

    If you start donations, I will donate. I think it is time that someone did something nice for you after all you’ve been through (Though might have to wait as money is tight for me).

    I don’t want shares or anything in your company, I rather give you the money directly so it can AID you, so donations = will do.

  103. Carnevil says:

    I would appreciate that greatly! Thank you! And yes, I will be asking for donations.

  104. CafeExpress says:

    When I can, I’ll get in contact with someone who can send money over paypal (I don’t have a credit card, and I’m not setting up my bank card to one) and send you a bit. As soon as I finish buying my computer parts and get my other expenses out of the way (College fees, Misc Expenses) I’ll see what I have and send you a bit. Just keep me posted Carn!

  105. Slyor64 says:

    Maybe when I’m done paying debts to everyone in my family I can donate. :P

  106. Do NOT take that comment in all caps with my name as “don mutha fuckin’ west” as me personally saying that. It is not me that typed that shit. It was one of my stupid friends.

  107. Just wanna set the record straight.

  108. Nig Nog says:

    Everyone who completely depise @RAGECAPS are nothing but pussies who think they’re intelligent, high, and mighty but that’s not true. Those sick pathetic fucks must be pulverize in site with their bullshit assumptions. Dumbasses.

  109. NotTheActualSean says:

    And here we are again.

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